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  #11  
Old 12-17-2008, 03:38 PM
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well. i do beleve everybody still needs a table to sit in when it comes to discussions about global matters.

Nato is inherently a military alliance with its own aspects and interests molded by the past.
EU is financial unification inheritly going with thease base aspects aswell.

Soviet Union was ideological superpower and acted like it. (ideology which was quite novel and lasted about few weeks untill some achievance/recognition oriented took advantage over
the base frame of the system and turned it to practical dictatorship)
United States is regional gathering of common interests which became a superpower in time
and under preasure. (without other ideology than the common nominator which is money
and the ever chanching aspect of liberty and freedom)

the question is.. does anything actually work? yes.. but for a time and a place.
(and thats one of the fine things about democracy.. if its dynamic enough.. it will work)
If we would not be in EU, i do beleve that we would be in far worse shape that we are
now. floating our currency and all that jazz we used to do just to make ends meet
and measure up against our neighbours. something worse than what Iceland is goingtrough
right now comes in mind.

so yes.. for us.. its working right now. but the financial down fall will be felt strongest here around 2009-2011.

its not that we can't invite.. its the chriteria.. all former Soviet States suffer from the same illness. in short deprivation and re-allocation of goods to benefit the numerous undertakings of the Soviet Union.. one notable would be
the spacerace against United States.. another was the forced internal security.

for commonsense: nations with different agendas can work together atleast to a point.
and thus we most seek mutual understanding. otherwise we are soon finding ourselves in something equal to 1960 and the missile chrisis.

If we don't persue the idea that we all can sit in the same table and talk about things,
the world will soon fall in to anarchy between nations and the outcome will just be
the same road up. with the nuclear devastation or without it. which one would you
choose?

its never easy.
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2008, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas View Post
Czech leader in shock after EU assault

A bizarre confrontation in Hradcany Castle confirms the inablilty of the Euro-elite to accept anyone else's opinions, writes Christopher Booker.

Christopher Booker
Last Updated: 10:28AM GMT 14 Dec 2008

Imagine that a Franco-German MEP, invited to meet the Queen at Buckingham Palace, plonked down in front of her an EU "ring of stars" flag, insisting that she hoist it over the palace alongside the Royal Standard, and then proceeded to address her in a deliberately insulting way. The British people, if news of the incident leaked out, might not be too pleased.

Something not dissimilar took place at a remarkable recent meeting between the heads of the groups in the European Parliament and Vaclav Klaus, the Czech head of state, in his palace in Hradcany Castle, on a hill overlooking Prague. The aim was to discuss how the Czechs should handle the EU's rotating six-monthly presidency when they take over from France on January 1.

The EU's ruling elite view President Klaus, a distinguished academic economist, with a mixture of bewilderment, hatred and contempt. As his country's prime minister, he applied to join the EU in the days after the fall of Communism in the 1990s. But now Klaus is alone among European leaders in expressing openly Eurosceptic views, not least about the Lisbon Treaty, which the Czech parliament has yet to ratify.

Klaus was an outspoken dissident under the Communist regime, and he has come to regard the EU as dangerously anti-democratic. But he compounds this sin with highly sceptical views on global warming, on which he recently published a book, Blue Planet in Green Shackles. He likens the extreme environmentalism favoured by the EU to Communism, as a serious threat to democracy, freedom and prosperity.

So when Klaus was due to meet the MEPs, one of them decided this was a moment to display the Euro-elite's hostility to him. Daniel Cohn-Bendit, who is German born but lives in France, first came to prominence in Paris in 1968 as a student agitator. He is now leader of the Green MEPs. Talking loudly in the plane to Prague, he made no secret of his intentions, and brief French journalists on how to get maximum publicity for his planned insults.

I happen to know the splendid room in which the meeting took place, because I sat there myself with President Klaus in 2005, when he had arranged for a history of the EU I had co-authored to be published in Czech. As Cohn-Bendit was aware, the only flag that flies over the castle is the presidential standard (though the "ring of stars" is much in evidence elsewhere in Prague, flown outside every government ministry).

As described to me by someone present, President Klaus greeted the MEPs with his usual genial courtesy. Whatever his own views, he assured them, his countrymen would conduct their presidency in fully "communautaire" fashion. Cohn-Bendit then staged his ambush. Brusquely plonking down his EU flag., which he observed sarcastically was so much in evidence around the palace, he warned that the Czechs would be expected to put through the EU's "climate change package" without interference.

"You can believe what you want," he scornfully told the president, "but I don't believe, I know that global warming is a reality." He added, "my view is based on scientific views and the majority approval of the EU Parliament".

He then moved on to the Lisbon Treaty. "I don't care about your opinions on it," he said. If the Czech Parliament approves the treaty in February, he demanded, "Will you respect the will of the representatives of the people?"

He then reprimanded the president for his recent meeting in Ireland with Declan Ganley, the millionaire leader of the "No" campaign in the Irish referendum, claiming that it was improper for Klaus to have talked to someone whose "finances come from problematic sources".

Visibly taken aback by this onslaught, Klaus observed: "I must say that no one has talked to me in such a style and tone in the past six years. You are not on the barricades in Paris here. I thought that such manners ended for us 19 years ago" (ie when Communism fell). When Klaus suggested to Hans-Gert Pöttering, the president of the EU Parliament, that perhaps it was time for someone else to take the floor, Pöttering replied that "anyone from the members of the Parliament can ask you what he likes", and invited Cohn-Bendit to continue.

"This is incredible', said Klaus. "I have never experienced anything like this before."

After a further exchange, in which Cohn-Bendit compared Klaus unfavourably with his predecessor, President Havel, he gave way to an Irish MEP, Brian Crowley, who began by saying "all his life my father fought against the British domination [of Ireland]… That is why I dare to say that the Irish wish for the Lisbon Treaty. It was an insult, Mr President, to me and the Irish people what you said during your state visit to Ireland." Klaus repeated that he had not experienced anything like this for19 years and that it seemed we were no longer living in a democracy, but that it was "post-democracy which rules the EU".

On the EU constitution, Klaus recalled that three countries had voted against it, and that if Mr Crowley wanted to talk about insults to the Irish people, "the biggest insult to the Irish people is not to accept the result of the Irish referendum". This provoked Crowley to retort angrily, "You will not tell me what the Irish think. As an Irishman, I know it best."

Everntually Pöttering closed the meeting by saying that he wanted to leave the room "in good terms", but it was quite unacceptable to compare himself and his colleagues with the Soviet Union. Klaus replied that he had not mentioned the Soviet Union: "I only said that I had not experienced such an atmosphere, such a style of debate, in the Czech Republic in the last 19 years."

This bizarre confrontation, which has been recounted and discussed with shock across formerly Communist eastern Europe, confirms the inability of the Euro-elite to accept that anyone holds different views from their own, on Lisbon, global warming or anything else. As we see from the way our own political parties are run, when it comes to "Europe", the system has no place for opposition. Everything must be decided by "consensus", directed from the top. There is only one approved "party line". Apart from a few little powerless dissidents round the edges, the EU is thus in essence a one-party state.

It was a sense of this that powerfully influenced the French, Dutch and Irish people, when they were given the chance, to vote against the constitution which will cement that one-party state into place more firmly than ever. And it explains why, last week, the European Council told the Irish that they must hold their referendum again, on the understanding that this time they will get it right. That is the way one-party states behave – as President Klaus, who lived under one for the first 50 years of his life, knows only too well.
Crowley is a tree hugging freeloader that could take his own pulse, never mind the pulse of the Irish nation, as far as Im concerned, they can pack his pathetic freeloading *** and send him to smoke pot with his tree hugging mates in Goa... what a knob!!...
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2008, 12:10 AM
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I wold love to believe in the EU completely I really would...and at times it does work...but the sooner we stop trying to kid ourselves that we can be one or read from the same page 100% of the time the better....We are still trying make the original model fit and It never has or ever will...Europe can be a strong union and allies across Europe have been strong(way before the union was even thought up)....But we have to work with what we have got and work within the lines

Strength in numbers dosnt always work when the more countries you ask to sit at the table dilutes the goals

Its not about giving up power so it sits right with people in Brussels... both politics and in military ..theres no point in being castrated so it can be put to a vote among countries that are working towards agendas that suit their own needs and are comfortable within their own borders

Heres a hypothetical situation....If Russian decided to take on Europe....the Russian Army would be knocking on Berlins door before the EU and its political back and forth woke up

You cant please everybody all of the time and at the moment the Union is trying to

In the long run it dosnt make Europe stronger.....it makes it much weaker
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jrj1000 View Post
I wold love to believe in the EU completely I really would...and at times it does work...but the sooner we stop trying to kid ourselves that we can be one or read from the same page 100% of the time the better....We are still trying make the original model fit and It never has or ever will...Europe can be a strong union and allies across Europe have been strong(way before the union was even thought up)....But we have to work with what we have got and work within the lines

Strength in numbers dosnt always work when the more countries you ask to sit at the table dilutes the goals

Its not about giving up power so it sits right with people in Brussels... both politics and in military ..theres no point in being castrated so it can be put to a vote among countries that are working towards agendas that suit their own needs and are comfortable within their own borders

Heres a hypothetical situation....If Russian decided to take on Europe....the Russian Army would be knocking on Berlins door before the EU and its political back and forth woke up

You cant please everybody all of the time and at the moment the Union is trying to

In the long run it dosnt make Europe stronger.....it makes it much weaker
This is why we most restrain the ones who are running the bridge before its complete.
This is why we most restrain the ones who are turning back before its finished.

its far easier to just dump it.
or to go with the fast track to obvious problems.
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  #15  
Old 01-01-2009, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by torspo[fin] View Post
This is why we most restrain the ones who are running the bridge before its complete.
This is why we most restrain the ones who are turning back before its finished.

its far easier to just dump it.
or to go with the fast track to obvious problems.
Fair point Torps....Like I said its a good concept it just needs some ironing...and the larger it gets the more divsions come to the surface
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