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  #131  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:17 PM
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Fireball Fireball is offline
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Originally Posted by torspo[fin] View Post
pay close attention.. because your country is stepping in the way that they perfer.

Its not about simple things like liberalism or conservatims anymore.

Like Marine and many others -- people don't understand the magnitude of problems in the countries who "prefer" those things. Everyone takes on the view "the grass must be greener on the other side"

Similar problems exist - the costs seem to be more.
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  #132  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:23 PM
Rock-Steady Rock-Steady is offline
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I agree about the educational system. Although, I don't believe you can completely fault the system without faulting what lies in the HOME. Seems parents today rely on the "takes a village to raise a child"... and not so much their responsibility to raise productive members in society.
Completely agree...
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  #133  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:34 PM
Rock-Steady Rock-Steady is offline
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Originally Posted by torspo[fin] View Post
pay close attention.. because your country is stepping in the way that they perfer.

Its not about simple things like liberalism or conservatims anymore.
We have to make an honest and accurate assessment of the problems before anything can really be done about them.

Liberals in this country are collectively intent on denying individual responsibility for problems. No matter how perfect the system, it will always appear to fail if individuals aren't held accountable and keep blaming "the system".
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  #134  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:43 PM
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torspo[fin] torspo[fin] is offline
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To me, he had education. The problem is people are choosing INSTANT rather than LONG TERM. "What's in it for me now"... I think it would be better said "a man of this kind, will continue to see the world in the way he has been CONDITIONED to see it." They interviewed his family - all of whom didn't seem to have tons of money but were making choices to keep them off the streets.

I think your "boogers" comment wasn't really effective - at least I wasn't seeing the point... I do believe that every man has potential, which is what gives me the compassion to help others around me. Knowing your potential can help a person when trying to succeed. Or maybe potential isn't worth??

I agree about the educational system. Although, I don't believe you can completely fault the system without faulting what lies in the HOME. Seems parents today rely on the "takes a village to raise a child"... and not so much their responsibility to raise productive members in society.

I don't know if education can really beat one's impulses/addictions/ignorance... for it is up to a person to choose whether or not to accept what they have been taught or reject it.

yep.
it all comes down to boogers nowadays doesnt it?

It doesnt take a smart man to deliver munitions on the right place at right time..
It doesnt take a smart man to do a mans job outside battlefield.
what you do can be the decisive factor.

is my landish comment effective? I dont friggin care...
its all the same to me.. but if you learn something...
thats always a plus.

choosing the INSTANT is the basics of the consumerist world.
without it the "american dream" would fall.

when the people who were reacently satisfied with the
things they had.. nolonger afford it..

where does it lead?
with the "[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm18c5Btiw"]American dream[/URL]"?
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  #135  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by torspo[fin] View Post
...choosing the INSTANT is the basics of the consumerist world.
without it the "american dream" would fall.
I see we agree we disagree with most everything on your last post, but I wanted to reply on this one comment alone...

You believe without the INSTANT mentality the American Dream would fail... I believe WITH the INSTANT mentality American dream fails... The "American Dream" IS NOT instant... and that is what prevents the dream from becoming reality for so many. The poor believe it is instant... the rich generally have built a long term plan. Again, why punish those who have worked and worked to build on their dream... when others think they can dream it and have it when they wake up??

Define what *you* believe the American Dream is for the majority of Americans... I would like to hear what you and others here believe the "American Dream" is...
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  #136  
Old 08-02-2008, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by torspo[fin] View Post
yep.
it all comes down to boogers nowadays doesnt it?

It doesnt take a smart man to deliver munitions on the right place at right time..
It doesnt take a smart man to do a mans job outside battlefield.
what you do can be the decisive factor.

is my landish comment effective? I dont friggin care...
its all the same to me.. but if you learn something...
thats always a plus.

choosing the INSTANT is the basics of the consumerist world.
without it the "american dream" would fall.

when the people who were reacently satisfied with the
things they had.. nolonger afford it..

where does it lead?
with the "[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm18c5Btiw"]American dream[/URL]"?
You're a die hard socialist Torspo. You'll never acknowledge that some people don't want to contribute they just want to take and point the finger of responsibility elsewhere. Thats got absolutely nothing to do with the education system, its to do with the role model that brought them into the world. When they look at their parents and see a foul mouthed lay about then in 99% of the time thats what they will become- An updated clone of their parents!

Education at school can only help those that want to learn. If their parents show no interest then the children won't show any interest.

I do share your opinion on the instant culture created by consumerism. But lets not be two faced here because it has fueled a better way of life at home for the majority. The majority being those that understand the work ethic.

Like everybody else though I do get tired and start to feel like I'm chasing my tail. Thats what Holidays are for ....
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  #137  
Old 08-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Txmom42 Txmom42 is offline
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My idea of the American Dream is being able to comfortably take care of your family doing something you love to do. If you don't work for it, it is not as valuable to you. That's why I make my kids earn money to buy the things they want instead of just giving it to them. Being able to earn enough money to buy something you really want and then going to get it is such a rush! Not to mention, they take much better care of it.
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  #138  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:06 AM
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My idea of the American Dream is being able to comfortably take care of your family doing something you love to do. If you don't work for it, it is not as valuable to you. That's why I make my kids earn money to buy the things they want instead of just giving it to them. Being able to earn enough money to buy something you really want and then going to get it is such a rush! Not to mention, they take much better care of it.
Well said Txmom.

and thus money gains a value, because it become associated with hard work. Thats true responsibility!
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  #139  
Old 08-02-2008, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Txmom42 View Post
My idea of the American Dream is being able to comfortably take care of your family doing something you love to do. If you don't work for it, it is not as valuable to you. That's why I make my kids earn money to buy the things they want instead of just giving it to them. Being able to earn enough money to buy something you really want and then going to get it is such a rush! Not to mention, they take much better care of it.
I am really amazed at the different views and how films portray "The American Dream"... obviously all of us are "dreaming" or have a different vision - hence the differences of/in families, political views, expectations, etc...

More often than not - I see in films or with families that they are not teaching their posterity about the sacrifices they made, or a sense of humility & gratitude, etc... There is much to be said for those values to be taught and exercised in the home. We see now that many of the younger generations don't have that sense of gratitude & humility that is needed to further a work ethic.

I grew up in a very well-off area. We lived in a VERY modest home that was built in the 50's while many of my friends were living in brand new million dollar homes. When I went to high school the question was "what kind of car are you getting for your birthday?" I remember being completely blown away by the expectation of most of those friends. For the question USUALLY was "are you getting a car for your birthday?" Most of them had friendships with their parents, because it was like their parents feared to parent because they didn't want to be disliked or uncool. I was shocked at the topics of conversation that they would have at home vs. what we would talk about at our house.

Looking back I have tried to pin point what the difference was between our families... It seemed as though the focus for many of those families was HOW they appeared to society...when in my home the focus was WHAT were you doing to help society. I do not believe that people see themselves promoting this attitude when they have found success... because naturally parents don't want their children to "struggle" like they struggled - so they give & give and build from the success up... but if you never see or understand hardship - you can oft times lack the ability to see many things that are critical for better leadership and just an understanding of people in general.

Sorry I am always intrigued by human nature and society and the effects of environment on people. LOL Hopefully this all made sense... I have LOTS of distractions right now... LOL
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  #140  
Old 08-02-2008, 10:30 PM
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Marine4Life Marine4Life is offline
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some people don't want to contribute they just want to take and point the finger of responsibility elsewhere. Thats got absolutely nothing to do with the education system, its to do with the role model that brought them into the world. When they look at their parents and see a foul mouthed lay about then in 99% of the time thats what they will become- An updated clone of their parents!

Education at school can only help those that want to learn. If their parents show no interest then the children won't show any interest.
I agree with you here Texas. Well said.
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