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  #371  
Old 03-14-2006, 09:12 AM
royalmarinehopefull royalmarinehopefull is offline
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I second that
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  #372  
Old 03-14-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js_mac
Wow, what a shock, you disagree.
It has nothing to do with disagreement professor. It has everything to do with you being wrong, racist and bigoted. Your thoughts and ideas? I have wiped better stuff off the soles of my shoes.
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  #373  
Old 03-14-2006, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus185
i think youv hit it on the head Kurusch..........iv read that there training was fairly hard as well a combination of the two makes for a very superb army indeed
One of the other interesting reasons is that they were tought discipline and courage from a very young age young age most of them at least .... so when it came to fighting the enemy they didnt really give a *****.
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Last edited by Lenin; 03-14-2006 at 05:14 PM..
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  #374  
Old 03-14-2006, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurusch
It has nothing to do with disagreement professor. It has everything to do with you being wrong, racist and bigoted. Your thoughts and ideas? I have wiped better stuff off the soles of my shoes.
Kurusch is never wrong. Sorry for even thinking of disagreeing with you, sir. Genes don't exist, everyone is the same. Thousands of years of evolution mean sweet fvck-all... it's ok, i've got it now, fuhrer.
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  #375  
Old 03-14-2006, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js_mac
Kurusch is never wrong. Sorry for even thinking of disagreeing with you, sir. Genes don't exist, everyone is the same. Thousands of years of evolution mean sweet fvck-all... it's ok, i've got it now, fuhrer.
I'm flattered that you believe I'm never wrong, though I think I am, thank you. Who says genes don't exist? Who says everyone is the same? Who says evolution means f uck all? Not me. It is your antiquated and racist interpretation that is wrong, bad and ignorant. Have you got that now fuhrer?
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Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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  #376  
Old 03-15-2006, 08:30 AM
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I think I'm gonna side with kurusch because of his earlier post of Belief in their leader. Mac, The prussians were not in conflict from the time of their revolution in fighting the revolutionaries in 1849 i believe. i just learned it in history but I'm on my first spring break and haven't picked up any books. But from that time on till WWI, they were in no conflicts, Once Code Napoleon died down a little bit, there was no threat to any nations. In fact Under certain congregations, Prussia was joined to other nations and large skilled militaries were not needed untill the Great War.
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  #377  
Old 03-15-2006, 12:20 PM
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Here's an article I found on charlesdarwinresearch.org. It's a pretty general view on racial differences (covering only the three general categories of 'white', 'black' and 'oriental'). If you have a brain, you'll understand that race is a lot more deep than just 'white', 'black' etc. For, example, your average german is different to your average frenchman. It's the same process as that creating the differences between blacks, whites, and orientals, as a whole
Have fun proving this wrong, bigotboy:

[url]http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cachejGLCN5OBkEJ:www.charlesdarwinresea rch.org/TaxonomicConstruct.pdf+race+differences&hl=en&gl=u k&ct=clnk&cd=1[/url]
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  #378  
Old 03-15-2006, 04:42 PM
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kurusch kurusch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js_mac
Here's an article I found on charlesdarwinresearch.org. It's a pretty general view on racial differences (covering only the three general categories of 'white', 'black' and 'oriental'). If you have a brain, you'll understand that race is a lot more deep than just 'white', 'black' etc. For, example, your average german is different to your average frenchman. It's the same process as that creating the differences between blacks, whites, and orientals, as a whole
Have fun proving this wrong, bigotboy:

[url]http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cachejGLCN5OBkEJ:www.charlesdarwinresea rch.org/TaxonomicConstruct.pdf+race+differences&hl=en&gl=u k&ct=clnk&cd=1[/url]
Easy.
The group you so eagerly quote was founded by Philippe Rushton. Here's some of what wikipedia has to say about Rushton. I draw your attention to the last paragraph in particular. Any other racist 'authorities' you wanna quote?

Rushton's most famous work is his controversial book Race, Evolution And Behavior: A Life History Perspective, in which he draws attention to the existence of many racial differences, including behavioral ones, and shows that they are frequently arranged in a continuum of Mongoloids at one extreme, Negroids at the opposite extreme, and Caucasoids in the middle.[1] The book uses averages of hundreds of studies, modern and historical to demonstrate this pattern. The book grew out his earlier paper, Evolutionary Biology and Heritable Traits (With Reference to Oriental¹-White-Black Difference), which was presented at the Symposium on Evolutionary Theory, Economics and Political Science, AAAS Annual Meeting (San Francisco, CA, January 19, 1989).

The book claims that of the three races it is concerned with (Negroids, Caucasoids, and Mongoloids), Mongoloids have the highest average performance in measurements of cognitive ability (See race and intelligence), have the lowest crime rates, work hardest, are the least promiscuous and the least aggressive, and have the largest brain size, lowest ratio of twins to births, the slowest maturation rates, greatest parental investment in child-rearing, the lowest rates of sexually transmitted diseases, the longest life expectancy, the greatest degree of emotional control, and the least amount of body odor (due to their apocrine glands being smallest and least numerous). The book claims that Negroids average at the opposite end on all of these scales, and Caucasoids rank in between Mongoloids and Negroids, but closer to Mongoloids.

Popular science commentator David Suzuki for one protested the book and spoke against Rushton in a live televised debate at the University of Western Ontario.

Rushton's theory is based on an attempt to extend the r/K selection theory to humans. He explains the patterns in the table by arguing that while all humans display extremely K-selected behavior, the races vary in the degree to which they exhibit that behavior. He argues that Negroids use a strategy more toward an r-selected strategy (produce more offspring, but provide less care for them) while Mongoloids use the K strategy most (produce fewer offspring but provide more care for them), with Caucasoids exhibiting intermediate tendencies in this area. He argues that Caucasoids evolved more toward a K-selected breeding strategy than Negroids because of the harsher and colder weather encountered in Europe, while the same held true to a greater extent for Mongoloids.

Rushton's work is prominent in race and intelligence research, but his r/K selection theory is the subject of much more criticism and accusations than found even in this controversial field. For example, in a 1996 review of the book, anthropologist C. Loring Brace wrote that "Race, Evolution, and Behavior is an amalgamation of bad biology and inexcusable anthropology. It is not science but advocacy, and advocacy of 'racialism'" (Brace 1996). Brace argues that Rushton assumes the existence of three biological races with no evidence except Rushton's speculation as to what an extraterrestrial visitor to Earth would think. Since Brace's criticism, genetics studies have identified possible genetic differences between the racial groups under question (Tang et al. 2005)². Brace also disagrees with Rushton applying the concept of heritability (normally applied in the context of individuals) to groups. Finally, Brace claims Rushton makes unsupported claims about sub-Saharan African societies.

This theory has difficulty explaining why Native Americans, who appeared even later and emigrated from the northernmost parts of Asia, do not currently have high scores on IQ tests. On the other hand, Rushton (1995) argues that lower scores of Native Americans can be attributed to the evolutionary relaxation of cognitive demands due to the more temperate environment and comparative ease with which North American fauna could be hunted. But it can be argued that life along the fertile river plains in China was not particularly harsh. It is also questionable that conditions in deserts are no less harsh but people living there do not currently score high on IQ tests.

The theory is directly contradicted by the only comparative study on IQ scores in different European nations that showed a statistically insignificant association between the average IQ and latitude of various European nations. [3] In contrast, Beals et al. (1984, p. 309) found a correlation of 0.62 (p=0.00001) between latitude and cranial capacity in samples worldwide and reported that each degree of latitude was associated with an increase of 2.5 cm³ in cranial volume. A more recent study finds this pattern only when including a Siberian population living in extremely cold condition. The explanation may be natural selection for a thermoregulatory capacity in extremely cold environments, resulting in brachycephalization, rather than a selection for intelligence.

Since 2002, Rushton has been the president of the controversial Pioneer Fund, which aims "to advance the scientific study of heredity and human differences." Rushton's work has received grants from the fund totalling over $1 million USD since 1981.


Rushton sources, such as semi-pornographic books and the Penthouse magazine, have been dismissed by other researchers, or have been criticized as extremely biased and inadequate reviews of the literature, or simply false . There have also been many other criticisms of the theory. Actual recent data show that blacks are not more psychopathic, nor do they differ in from whites when testing for the big five personality traits, differences in sex hormones between whites and East Asians are best explained by environmental differences, and the fundamental prediction of the theory that blacks have a higher frequency of twins is incorrect.
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'Never was so much owed by so many to so few.'
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Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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  #379  
Old 03-15-2006, 06:11 PM
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Scientists who dare to do the most taboo act in today's society - use their knowledge to prove that race exists - always have, still do, and always will be on the receiving end of fierce opposition from the media, which has (very successfully) used years' worth of propaganda and censorship to create the view that a racist is nothing more than a bigotted moron. When you, me, or anyone is told to think of the typical racist, our first thought is that of a skinhead thug. Then, when someone with double PhDs in psychology, and whose CV includes time at Oxford University and LSE, comes along and says that racism is a valid opinion, the media goes haywire. As I posted in the "are you racist?" thread, 94% of scientists agree that race is most likely party-gene-associated, with an average estimation of 60% of IQ being heriditable. It also said that the media has a tendency to portray this group as a minority:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_%28Media_portrayal%29[/url]
Here's a very recent example of what I've been talking about that you'll probably know of:
[url]http://www.bnp.org.uk/columnists/docdiary2.php?docId=91[/url]
Pissed off with his conclusion or not, his points still stand. I fail to see these scientists that you're quoting proving his theories dead-wrong. Rushton has provided physical evidence that intelligence (at least intelligence) is race-related. This hasn't been proved wrong, and his critics have done nothing but make inconlusive retorts based on their own opinions. I'm not convinced. You mustn't forget that scientists have their own political and emotional views that they put across. A scientist, who has lysenkoist views like yourself, is hardly going to support evidence that proves race is gene-associated.
I, for one, have posted countless sources showing the intellectual differences between races. Did you not read the papers today as well: The school exam results, when broken down racially, show the exact same pattern as Rushton and the sources I've provided links to.
Remember this:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study[/url]
This blows the theory that IQ differences are environment-dependent away.

I don't see how the rest of your post is meant to prove my argument wrong, all it does it provide more inconclusive evidence in a still-unsolved debate.


What the hell...:

Rushton sources, such as semi-pornographic books and the Penthouse magazine, have been dismissed by other researchers, or have been criticized as extremely biased and inadequate reviews of the literature, or simply false . There have also been many other criticisms of the theory. Actual recent data show that blacks are not more psychopathic, nor do they differ in from whites when testing for the big five personality traits, differences in sex hormones between whites and East Asians are best explained by environmental differences, and the fundamental prediction of the theory that blacks have a higher frequency of twins is incorrect.
Haha, Rushton gets all his research from porno mags..... haha. I think someone's been tampering with wikipedia. Go to wikipedia and take a look back at that paragraph that I highlighted in bold above: it has been tagged with "The neutrality of the section is disputed". Ha, I'll say. Porno mags indeed...
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  #380  
Old 03-15-2006, 06:59 PM
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kurusch kurusch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js_mac
I'm not convinced.
'to create the view that a racist is nothing more than a bigotted moron
What else is a racist?

' When you, me, or anyone is told to think of the typical racist, our first thought is that of a skinhead thug.
Nope. Racists are found in all strata of society, in all countries. Don't judge others by your own standards.

' Rushton has provided physical evidence that intelligence (at least intelligence) is race-related. This hasn't been proved wrong,'
Yes it has, over and over again. Try these links.

[url]http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/rushton.html[/url]

[url]http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/People/Rushton/rushton-black-reply.html[/url]

[url]http://www.ferris.edu/ISAR/archives/mehler/foundation.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.ferris.edu/isar/Institut/pioneer/rushton.htm[/url]

[url]http://bethuneinstitute.org/documents/racialscientestrushton.html[/url]

The third link alone gives you this:

'Steve Buist, Science Reporter
The Hamilton (Ontario) Spectator
April 17, 2000

J. Philippe Rushton's work to compare the intelligence of different racial groups, which is criticized by other scientists, receives funding from an American organization with a long history of support for race research and eugenics, the controversial study of racial improvement.....................

The Pioneer Fund was established by a reclusive New England millionaire named Wickliffe Draper, heir to a Massachusetts family that made its fortune in the textile machinery business............

One university professor from Virginia Tech who tutored Draper for $10 an hour in the years after the Second World War said later that Draper, who died in 1972, was preoccupied with racial superiority and inferiority........

Draper didn't just restrict his financial support to the Pioneer Fund. When a U.S. federal judge ordered 130,000 secret files opened in 1998, it was discovered that Draper had been anonymously -- and privately -- funding a campaign in Mississippi during the 1960s to fight the civil rights movement and maintain racial segregation.

According to the original charter of the Pioneer Fund, the organization would support research that was directed at "race betterment," with special consideration given to scholarship programs aimed at "children who are deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original 13 states."

In fact, one of the Pioneer Fund's first efforts was to offer $4,000 in scholarship money to any U.S. Air Corps pilot having a fourth child during 1940.

The Pioneer Fund directors wanted to promote a higher birth rate among what was seen as the best of the white race. At the time, blacks were barred from the all-white Air Corps.

In exchange, the Air Corps provided the fund's psychologists with extensive records on its officers, including training, parentage, race and religion.

Two of the Pioneer Fund's first directors were prominent supporters of the eugenics movement in the United States. Eugenics is the controversial science of improving the qualities of a race by controlling inherited characteristics.

Frederick Osborn was the secretary of the American Eugenics Society, and once stated publicly that the sterilization program in Nazi Germany was "perhaps the most important social program which has ever been tried."

Harry Laughlin was director of the Carnegie Institute's Eugenics Record Office, and an advocate of sterilization for those he believed were genetically unfit. In 1936, he was honoured by Hitler's Third Reich for his contributions to Nazi eugenic programs.

In its infancy, the fund reportedly imported two copies of a Nazi propaganda film entitled "Applied Eugenics in Present-Day Germany" and added English subtitles for the American audience.

Henry Garrett, a Pioneer Fund director during the 1970s, organized an international group of scholars dedicated to preventing the mixing of races, preserving segregation and promoting the principles of what was described as "race hygiene."

Weyher, a New York lawyer, has been president of the Pioneer Fund for just over 40 years. He was also Draper's personal attorney, and has publicly stated his opposition to the U.S. Supreme Court decision that desegregated the American school system...................

Check just inside the front cover and you'll find two pages of academic acclaim for the booklet.

At first glance, it looks like a ringing endorsement for Rushton and his views.

But check closer. Smell something fishy?

According to Arthur Jensen of the University of California at Berkeley, "this brilliant book is the most impressive theory-based study ... of the psychological and behavioural differences between the major racial groups that I have encountered in the world literature on this subject."

High praise, indeed.

But wait a second. Jensen just happens to be an even larger recipient of money from the Pioneer Fund than Rushton, which is no easy task.

Jensen's research on blacks and low IQ scores has been attacked for being just as racially sensitive and pseudoscientific as Rushton's work.

In a 1994 article that touched on eugenics and sterilization, Jensen was quoted in the magazine Newsday as saying, "Which is worse, to deprive someone of having a child, or to deprive the child of having a decent set of parents?"

Perhaps it's not surprising to learn that Rushton has reciprocated with a flattering review of a 1998 book written by Jensen. Rushton describes Jensen's career as "brilliant" and the book as "awesome" and "monumental."

Or how about this praise from Professor Hans Eysenck of the University of London: "Professor Rushton is widely known and respected for the unusual combination of rigour and originality in his work."

Put aside for a second the fact that Rushton does almost no original research of his own and that critics have attacked his "rigour" because he uses the bits of old data that support his hypothesis while ignoring those bits that aren't as flattering.

Rushton attended the University of London as a student and Eysenck was his mentor. Eysenck, who died in 1997, was also a Pioneer Fund grant recipient.
Here's what Richard Lynn has to say about Rushton: He "should, if there is any justice, receive a Nobel Prize."

Lynn is associated with the right-wing Ulster Institute for Social Research in Northern Ireland and was second only to Rushton as the Pioneer Fund's top grant recipient from 1994-96.

Lynn has tried to suggest that IQ scores for black Africans average 70, a level that is equated with some mental impairment.

There are also endorsements from Linda Gottfredson of the University of Delaware and Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota, both major recipients of cash from the Pioneer Fund. ...............

Here is perhaps all you need to know about Whitney: he wrote the foreword for David Duke's autobiography, calling it an "excellent work ... that has the potential to change the very course of history."

Duke is a white supremacist from Louisiana and the former National Director of the Ku Klux Klan. He then went on to form the National Association for the Advancement of White People.

Duke is now the president of NOFEAR -- the National Organization for European American Rights -- an organization "dedicated to protecting the rights and heritage of people of European descent in America," according to Duke's official Web site.

Welcome to the people who support Philippe Rushton.....................

In fact, Rushton's work is either reviewed or cited on a number of white supremacist Web sites, including Duke's official international Web site, the National Alliance site and the Stormfront "White Pride World Wide" site.....

But to some academics who have attempted to untangle Rushton's work, there's a bigger question than whether or not a scientist received money from an organization like the Pioneer Fund.

"Scientists can sometimes be incredibly arrogant," said Dr. Fred Weizmann, "because they think they are exempt from being influenced by those who fund them.

"The real question is not did the Pioneer Fund make you alter your scientific findings but why did the Pioneer Fund fund you?"

Weizmann is a psychology professor at York University who has analysed the scientific data used by Rushton. He describes Rushton's work as "lousy science."

"It's not so much a question of whether or not they influence an individual scientist but rather the scientists they choose to fund in the first place," Weizmann added.

"I think evolutionary psychologists -- the straight ones -- are very embarrassed by all this. It's like a dog trying to outrun its shadow. It never seems to be able to fully escape it."

Which leads to the final question. Perhaps it's a question that can never be answered.

Is it possible to objectively explore whether there is a link between race, genetics and some shapeless, yet vital, human characteristic such as intelligence?

"Some people claim you can't do good science on it," said Weizmann. "It's just too explosive no matter what you do.

"One can even question why people are interested in it. Scientific topics are not random. Why is there so much interest in group differences?

"I think that in itself is a reflection of the climate we live in," Weizmann added. "There are lots of scientific questions one could ask but there's a limited amount of money for research in science.

"Why do these topics become hot and get published?"
'


'I'm not convinced.'
Suit yourself. Wallow in ignorance and loathing.
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Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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