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  #21  
Old 11-01-2005, 04:19 PM
Beagle Beagle is offline
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O come on guy's

This is a forum for asking help in the service where People achieve something great, and make lifelong friend's who they can trust and rely on and were all rowing and shouting like were special force's or something ?

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  #22  
Old 11-01-2005, 04:34 PM
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Morten Morten is offline
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Originally Posted by Beagle
O come on guy's

This is a forum for asking help in the service where People achieve something great, and make lifelong friend's who they can trust and rely on and were all rowing and shouting like were special force's or something ?

Beagle
while that might be true the young soldiers has to know the facts (good or bad) before they join the military!.. ^_^

if u were referring to my little "conversation" that is
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2005, 09:25 AM
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Arch_Angel Arch_Angel is offline
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Default That is what I'm sayin

Now that is what i been trying to see this entire time. That vechical is awesome in how it looks not it how works maybe you'll get that damn armour.
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2005, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Arch_Angel
Now that is what i been trying to see this entire time. That vechical is awesome in how it looks not it how works maybe you'll get that damn armour.
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2005, 10:21 PM
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hey dont knock thos hummers i rod in ones exactly like those the steal is realy heavy and weighs them down alot but it helps
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  #26  
Old 11-03-2005, 06:46 AM
Tacky Tacky is offline
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Originally Posted by Morten
considering that Optruth has a pretty good updated archive i dont think much has been changed, since there haven't been any news about it on their front site.

its the same thing about the kevlar bodyarmor issue where the soldiers family had to spend thousands of dollars to buy bodyprotection for their loved ones! luckely Optruth decided to do something about it... read this: (note that this has JUST happened)


The government wasn't ready for the war, AT ALL...
I do not really take much from that site, it tends to hide its anti-war views amongst the mantra of supporting the troops. It is far too obvious in its bias.

I can only go with what I saw with my own eyes over there, and what I gleened from talking to different units. We do not use uparmour, as it slows our HMMWVs and adds too much weight, they are more of a hinderance to us, however, rarely my last deployment did I see a HMMWV on the road that wasn't uparmoured.

Also, it wasn't because of this site that soldiers will be reimbursed...anytime you buy equiptment like that you can get a reimbursement. Of course, bill or no bill, you can **** in one in one hand, wish in the other and see which fills first.

They certainly do like to toot their own horn.

Who is to say the government wasn't ready for the war? Civilians? The military is rarely equipped completely with the very best of equpitment. This is a fact of life. HMMVWs were NEVER meant to be armoured....it is only in Iraq that we discovered a need. We adapted, and now production is going. And as for bodyarmour they may not have had the most up to date armour or the lightest but they did have it.
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  #27  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:38 AM
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Morten Morten is offline
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Originally Posted by Tacky
I do not really take much from that site, it tends to hide its anti-war views amongst the mantra of supporting the troops. It is far too obvious in its bias.

I can only go with what I saw with my own eyes over there, and what I gleened from talking to different units. We do not use uparmour, as it slows our HMMWVs and adds too much weight, they are more of a hinderance to us, however, rarely my last deployment did I see a HMMWV on the road that wasn't uparmoured.

Also, it wasn't because of this site that soldiers will be reimbursed...anytime you buy equiptment like that you can get a reimbursement. Of course, bill or no bill, you can **** in one in one hand, wish in the other and see which fills first.

They certainly do like to toot their own horn.

Who is to say the government wasn't ready for the war? Civilians? The military is rarely equipped completely with the very best of equpitment. This is a fact of life. HMMVWs were NEVER meant to be armoured....it is only in Iraq that we discovered a need. We adapted, and now production is going. And as for bodyarmour they may not have had the most up to date armour or the lightest but they did have it.
ehm... first of all they dont support bush at all... they have had TV interviews where they say that Bush ****ed it up big time... and the blogs on their site says the same thing (not ALL ofc)... i have yet to find a BUSH RULE site linked from that site :P

about the bodyarmor thing... yes theres a rule that say that u can get it reimbursed but the government didn't actually follow that rule... and i know Optruth didn't actually do it themself'es! but 5000 people from the optruth site filled complaints that were sent to the government!. And the soldiers shouldn't even have to buy bodyarmor in the first place!. It should be delivered to them by the military.

i dont think the government was ready for war! insurgency is a new term and wasn't really thought off when entering Iraq... everyone thought it would be a "blitzkreig" as u can put it so the demands on equipment was sky rocketing! but what did the troops get? well just check out the pictures... i dont really know what u saw, when was it? and where was it?

it really depends where in Iraq u are... the packages are being transferred through diffrent camps, and stuff do get stolen by other soldiers who think they needs them more than the rest.

sry if i missed something...

ohh ye and i know its true about the speed decrease when armoring the humvee's... but some soldiers will gladly offer that speed for better protection against IED's
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Last edited by Morten; 11-03-2005 at 08:45 AM..
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  #28  
Old 11-03-2005, 10:26 AM
Tacky Tacky is offline
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Originally Posted by Morten
ehm... first of all they dont support bush at all... they have had TV interviews where they say that Bush ****ed it up big time... and the blogs on their site says the same thing (not ALL ofc)... i have yet to find a BUSH RULE site linked from that site :P
I did not say nor imply that the site was pro-Bush, in fact, I pointed out that it was anti-war and quite biased in its hard leaning views. It does not humour me to see a site use the military to push their own personal agendas.

Quote:
about the bodyarmor thing... yes theres a rule that say that u can get it reimbursed but the government didn't actually follow that rule... and i know Optruth didn't actually do it themself'es! but 5000 people from the optruth site filled complaints that were sent to the government!. And the soldiers shouldn't even have to buy bodyarmor in the first place!. It should be delivered to them by the military.
What you do not seem to understand about the military is that personal equpitment is the responsibility of the unit. When you have someone or someones lacking standard kit, it is generally the fault of the officers not willing to put in the hours and fill out the proper paper work. If a unit doesn't request what it needs, it doesn't get sent.

I know the civilian mindset is to automatically blame the big evil DoD as a whole whenever anything happens, but in reality, and lot of the screw ups start at the unit level.

My guys always have the equpitment they need, not because a magic faerie comes down, sprinkles dust and makes it appear, but because we do the work to get it.

Quote:
i dont think the government was ready for war! insurgency is a new term and wasn't really thought off when entering Iraq... everyone thought it would be a "blitzkreig" as u can put it so the demands on equipment was sky rocketing! but what did the troops get? well just check out the pictures... i dont really know what u saw, when was it? and where was it?

it really depends where in Iraq u are... the packages are being transferred through diffrent camps, and stuff do get stolen by other soldiers who think they needs them more than the rest.

sry if i missed something...
We've been there three times now..and we've managed to hit all of the fun hot spots.

As for the government not being ready for the war, of course not, they are politicians..not military strategists. The mission was changed on the spot directly after we took control of Iraq. Was the military prepared for Iraq? Yes. Would the military have faired and be fairing better were it not for politicians constantly wanting to put their hat into the ring? Absolutely!

The majority of our conventional forces are not trained in long term peacekeeping/rebuilding operations, and they shouldn't be. Have we overcome that and adapted? Yes.

"Insurgency" is not a new term to the military, it is a very old term and the US has dealt with it before. Insurgencies are very difficult to contain as they fall into the catagory of unconventional warfare. They cannot, however, sustain themselves for indifinite periods of time. Eventually, it WILL come to a head...whether we are there or not.

You have to remember, we are not only governed by the LOLW, GCs, SOPs and ROEs, but also by political correctness...and it has taken a huge foothold in Iraq because politicians are afraid to ruin their approval ratings by letting the military do what it already knows how to do. You can't expect your guard dog to stop the intruder if you keep him on a two foot chain at the back of the lot.

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ohh ye and i know its true about the speed decrease when armoring the humvee's... but some soldiers will gladly offer that speed for better protection against IED's
They are great for guys running static patrols and constant convoys. They aren't so great for guys that have more specialised missions. The uparmour kits are there, and they are being used. Yes, we need more..but the numbers are hardly as great as the media likes to portray.

Remember, that while the uparmour does help those guys, and it does help save lives..it isn't fool proof.

You can't make a hostile area safe, no matter what you do..and anyone that joins the military should be realistic enough to know he WILL be placed in dangerous and life threatening situations.
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  #29  
Old 11-03-2005, 11:32 AM
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Morten Morten is offline
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Quote:
What you do not seem to understand about the military is that personal equpitment is the responsibility of the unit. When you have someone or someones lacking standard kit, it is generally the fault of the officers not willing to put in the hours and fill out the proper paper work. If a unit doesn't request what it needs, it doesn't get sent.
again that depends... soldiers steal from eachother whenever they can... the officer DO request things but does it get all the way there? hardly... i have heard TONS of soldiers complain about equipment shortage, (Kevlar, Armor) but why didn't they get what they asked for?

well... a good example of what armor can do, can be seen in the Danish army... we have hit tons of IED's... how many KIA? 1... and he died 1 month ago... that says alot about what armor can do... though we dont use Humvee's, but its the same thing... u cant be 100% safe... but if it can save, well, just a few lives, then its worth it...

okay ye they're anti-war... i can agree on that... but then again, they dont deny blogs or articles that show support for Bush it really just shows what the majority(sp?) believes

Quote:
Yes, we need more..but the numbers are hardly as great as the media likes to portray.
just wanted to state that i dont watch news channels... i get all my info from blogs and soldiers who have been in Iraq u cant trust the damn media

but anyway... u might be right... and u might not... i dont really know :P
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Last edited by Morten; 11-03-2005 at 11:35 AM..
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  #30  
Old 11-03-2005, 05:35 PM
Tacky Tacky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten
again that depends... soldiers steal from eachother whenever they can... the officer DO request things but does it get all the way there? hardly... i have heard TONS of soldiers complain about equipment shortage, (Kevlar, Armor) but why didn't they get what they asked for?
Anything to excuse reality and blame someone else, right? Sorry, but the majority of equpitment shortages are due to lazy officers that won't do the leg work. It has always been that way, it will always be that way. No matter how much you want to blame the big mean evil politicians or the big green machine. I know personal responsibility is dead in many parts of the world today and it is easier to simply blame the big evil government instead of those in charge of actually requesting the equipment.

Quote:
well... a good example of what armor can do, can be seen in the Danish army... we have hit tons of IED's... how many KIA? 1... and he died 1 month ago... that says alot about what armor can do... though we dont use Humvee's, but its the same thing... u cant be 100% safe... but if it can save, well, just a few lives, then its worth it...
I've survived two IED attacks...one in a thin skinned, no frills HMMWV and one in an uparmoured HMMWV. My injuries were worse from the latter. Do they help? Yes. Are they the end all to casualties? No. We took casualties in both incidents.

Quote:
just wanted to state that i dont watch news channels... i get all my info from blogs and soldiers who have been in Iraq u cant trust the damn media
You can't trust blogs either.

I get my information by what I see and experience... for the rest, I'm forced, just like anyone else, to gleen the facts from the news. Blogs are simply someone elses view on already twisted facts.
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