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  #31  
Old 11-29-2005, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aLLOssie
The diggers said they expected the japs to be crap fighters, but they were really good, so i doubt they were crap. Oh yah im guessing you like those ghurkas, they're cool! But did you know that the turks called the aussies the white ghurkas cos of their skill with bayonets. The site was called australians at war.

This topic was based on the aussies so i tallked about them. All the facts in my knowledge are either from various history books, or the diggers themselves who fought in the war themselves.

That grenade in the tent thing, the guy who done it told my parents a few years ago before he died. It happened often as some aussies should know.

All i can say is in any major war, we will only make it through with such success if we all stick and fight together. It is about teamwork, not individuality. Everyone has skills of their own, and excel in certain areas. Actually my oppinion about the aussies being best army in the world, can't actually be true, but i carry a deep admiration for them. No army is best in the world. Many armies could be accepted in being among the best, but i cant actually say any army can be the best in the world.

I know for sure that alot of america's army is inexperienced kids as i could pick out from the 'amazing sas'. I think it was in afghanistan, the sas went to go up a hill full of snow. They had all this puffy gear on so they were like bears. The yanks said "What are these ****ing mad aussies doing?"
When the group wnt onto of the hill, the aussies were fine in their puffy suits, while the lightly clothed yanks were freezing and really suffering. Another bit was the yanks asked the aussie sas in a base about their equipment. The aussies showed them it, even though it was US manufactured and designed. And they said 'See, we use it like this!" and the yank said "Gee thats a good idea!". and then the aussie replied "What the ****, you guy's invented this stuff not me!"

I guess what im saying, and im not dissing the yanks -i admire them like the british, is that how the US army be the best in the world with such inexperience among the troops. I say that some armies of the world, can sit among the best easily, but cannot be better than somone else in that category. We are all the same, just have differant skills in certain areas.

For you scots out there, in this website about aussies at war in WWI i think, the aussies went to take a hill for a day from the brits already there. Theey got up there and it was cold. They could stand it hardly any longer. Then they could here the most beautifulest music. It was the sound of bagpipes, and marching feet. The scots had come!!! The aussies said it was like heaven, being greeted with such manpower along with beautiful music.
You know alot of stuff ,I'm impressed . I didn't know about the white ghurkas . You've just taught me something
I'm English ,We get bashed by everybody .But the thing is I'm from Lancashire ,from working class Irish stock .So my blood does go up when I think people diss the sacrifice my Family made .If you can master diplomacy along with your obvious knowledge .Your audience will multiply considerably
No problem mate . Usually about now I'd buy you a pint
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2005, 08:52 PM
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The Australian Army is one of the finest fighting forces in the world today and they play key roles in all international operations.It saddens me to see uninformed **** kickers playing down a nations army that has spilled just as much of its blood as any other 'western' country.
The insults and supersilious attitudes of a few are making us look like gormless idiots to the rest of the world and these nationalist baboons need to get there heads in a few books and throw away there copy of 'The george bush guide to foreign policy'.

Some ****ing allies we are.
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2005, 12:35 AM
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ozzi-solja ozzi-solja is offline
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the 'George Bush Guide to foreign policy'... ha ha, i like it. its almost an oxymoron

white ghurkas, you taught ME something to my fellow Australian friend
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2005, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aLLOssie
The diggers said they expected the japs to be crap fighters, but they were really good, so i doubt they were crap. Oh yah im guessing you like those ghurkas, they're cool! But did you know that the turks called the aussies the white ghurkas cos of their skill with bayonets. The site was called australians at war.

This topic was based on the aussies so i tallked about them. All the facts in my knowledge are either from various history books, or the diggers themselves who fought in the war themselves.

That grenade in the tent thing, the guy who done it told my parents a few years ago before he died. It happened often as some aussies should know.

All i can say is in any major war, we will only make it through with such success if we all stick and fight together. It is about teamwork, not individuality. Everyone has skills of their own, and excel in certain areas. Actually my oppinion about the aussies being best army in the world, can't actually be true, but i carry a deep admiration for them. No army is best in the world. Many armies could be accepted in being among the best, but i cant actually say any army can be the best in the world.

I know for sure that alot of america's army is inexperienced kids as i could pick out from the 'amazing sas'. I think it was in afghanistan, the sas went to go up a hill full of snow. They had all this puffy gear on so they were like bears. The yanks said "What are these ****ing mad aussies doing?"
When the group wnt onto of the hill, the aussies were fine in their puffy suits, while the lightly clothed yanks were freezing and really suffering. Another bit was the yanks asked the aussie sas in a base about their equipment. The aussies showed them it, even though it was US manufactured and designed. And they said 'See, we use it like this!" and the yank said "Gee thats a good idea!". and then the aussie replied "What the ****, you guy's invented this stuff not me!"

I guess what im saying, and im not dissing the yanks -i admire them like the british, is that how the US army be the best in the world with such inexperience among the troops. I say that some armies of the world, can sit among the best easily, but cannot be better than somone else in that category. We are all the same, just have differant skills in certain areas.

For you scots out there, in this website about aussies at war in WWI i think, the aussies went to take a hill for a day from the brits already there. Theey got up there and it was cold. They could stand it hardly any longer. Then they could here the most beautifulest music. It was the sound of bagpipes, and marching feet. The scots had come!!! The aussies said it was like heaven, being greeted with such manpower along with beautiful music.

well said mate.....well said!
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2005, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzi-solja
the 'George Bush Guide to foreign policy'... ha ha, i like it. its almost an oxymoron

Oxymoron??

is that like a neoknobsucker?
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2005, 03:31 PM
aLLOssie aLLOssie is offline
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HOLY....CRAP!

I hadn't expect such an outburst of praise from anyone. Yah I'm a history buff. I love it. I'm only in year11, and am probably one of the only student's out of 2000 in the whole school who actually knows something. The teacher praised for such extensive knowledge in post modern history and classical history.

Here's that site that will tell you about the lighthorse.

[url]http://www.lighthorse.org.au/military/msa.htm[/url]

Oh yah texas, when you said you were only after facts not stories. You should realise stories are more truthful and reliable than facts said by some historian who is most likely to obscure or overlook the truth. The stories are usually first hand told by the men of the war, so be sure that if you ever argue with someone as we had, to back off your facts with stories from the soldiers.

I remember a history teacher, he was a bloody history book, he knew everything of everthing! I can remember the whole class was fallin asleep while our teacher was talking. This history teacher was supervising, he said one word and captured the entire attention of the class. We were all very interested as he talked about how he thought china will blow the world away during the next olympics. His diplomatics and knowledge is more than one could imagine. He could capture the attention of a million with just a few words.

TO OSSiesolja:
I read something where a force of lighthorse were used before the 1900's...but they weren't the lighthorse in ww1, but something similar. They were noted for their reliability and mobility in australia so they already existed.

Last edited by aLLOssie; 11-30-2005 at 03:46 PM..
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2005, 03:53 PM
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deeds can be distorted by historians and soldiers alike so one must retreive undeniable evidence from first hand accounts from multiple sources before anyone can raise the word 'facts' a point that Texas has every right to emphasise.What would history be without investigation.Answer:Nonsense.
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2005, 05:07 PM
aLLOssie aLLOssie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bones
deeds can be distorted by historians and soldiers alike so one must retreive undeniable evidence from first hand accounts from multiple sources before anyone can raise the word 'facts' a point that Texas has every right to emphasise.What would history be without investigation.Answer:Nonsense.
I know what you're saying and i agree. Im just saying that one should not always throw all reliability in a fact by a historian when a first hand account by a digger for example is from the frontline and the soldier's feelings himself maybe just as good for point of view situations. Both types of analysis for anyone should be taken in account, and used. I do classical societies and cultures at school, where analysis and research is an extremely big thing. I learnt most facts etc are at times based on what was available which may be very small. They teach you to realise all of this. No fact can really be 100%accurate as everything is always obscurred, small in info, and said in many differant ways by differant people. SO info of the scene always changes.

Something i read by a man who's grandfather was in the lighthorse charge at beersheba. said one man said they were fearless charging into the face of massed turkish guns at beersheba. But, one soldier in the actual charge said he and the men were ****scared. But they couldn't drop out so they wouldnt dissapoint their mates. It is just something i am pointing out, that it is always differant so one needs to read both accounts before just using facts by historians you need to read soldiers stories too, so you may know more.

During the world wars, which i found out, a victory by the aussies was overlooked by english historians either during the war or after. It was why the books i read said that our battles were deliberately overshadowed by such historians who thought australians were ill undisciplined boys and didn't really think much of them.

Even Major General John Monash felt that the Australians were undervalued by the English. In a letter discussing the Australian successes at Villers-Bretonneux in April 1918, he wrote:

The British public is at last beginning to sit up and take notice, and from an attitude of cold and rather critical patronage towards Australians, and vague allusion to their "slack discipline" (forsooth), the people in England, the English troops and officers, and finally the War Office itself, are beginning to realize that the Australians are some of the best troops in the whole Empire, always to be relied upon, not merely to hold securely all ground but also to carry out every reasonable task set them.
- Letter, Major General John Monash, May 1918.

The reason for my outburst on this site, was everythign i read or seen on a documentary on tv etc, it always emphasised the Americans and British campaigns, always failing to mention why WWI and 2 turned out the way it did, becaue of the aussies and kiwis. Allenby said that he prefered the aussies over the english. And that the ANZACs created the hinge in which the allies swung on. He also said the modern state of Israel would not have existed if not for the australians.

Col stringer said,

"History has not been kind to these mounted Aussies. Not only is this magnificent and historical feat not known by the world, but also even most Australians are unfamiliar with what their forefathers achieved. Even the capture of Damascus was accredited to Lawrence of Arabia and his Arab army, but the truth is the Light Horseman had taken the city one week earlier. But had to hide out of sight while Lawrence’s monumental ego was appeased, allowing him to parade into the city posing as its liberator!"

By Col stringer, 800 Lighthorseman who changed the World. ISBN Number 0 646 27372 8 -First printing 1998.

Before the Light Horse left for Australia, Allenby wrote a remarkable tribute to them. It concluded: "The Australian lighthorseman combines with a splendid physique a restless activity of mind. This mental quality renders him somewhat impatient of rigid and formal discipline, but it confers upon him the gift of adaptability, and this is the secret of much of his success mounted or on foot. In this dual role . . . The Australian lighthorseman has proved himself equal to the best. He has earned the gratitude of the Empire and the admiration of the world."

also,

Many lighthorsemen were disillusioned with the way they had been used. They now hoped for a chance to meet the famed Turkish cavalry. But after ambushing some small Light Horse patrols and being ambushed in return, the Turks avoided major clashed and retreated to their base at Beersheba.
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2005, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aLLOssie
I know what you're saying and i agree. Im just saying that one should not always throw all reliability in a fact by a historian when a first hand account by a digger for example is from the frontline and the soldier's feelings himself maybe just as good for point of view situations. Both types of analysis for anyone should be taken in account, and used.

During the world wars, which i found out, a victory by the aussies was overlooked by english historians either during the war or after. It was why the books i read said that our battles were deliberately overshadowed by such historians who thought australians were ill undisciplined boys and didn't really think much of them.
Youve hit the nail right on the head there,the fact that the Brits were deliberately casting aside the Australian successes just gos to show that political interference can not only distort the factual points in history but actualy remove it in its entirety.Envy seems to be a key factor here,they didnt want there own exploits to be overshadowed.At a time when propaganda was at its sharpest the only way to extract the truth would be to obtain it from the people that were there,historians in this case would be an unreliable source.
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2005, 11:08 AM
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In 1918 there was limited education for the masses , no Internet , no quick way to travel to another country . Even if the working man wanted to ,he could barely afford to travel and find out for himself . All he knew was what the papers said . Which in many ways was obviously biased .
As for today, Austrailia is an equal partner . Its military resources are always welcome and appreciated in any conflict . If you read Bravo two zero . One of the SAS team is Aussie SAS ..

I think we are all very lucky to have extended family in every corner of the globe .
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