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  #21  
Old 10-06-2007, 04:39 AM
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Tsar Simeon Tsar Simeon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onep0int View Post
We've supported and armed Taiwan since they claimed their independence. It's been our problem since then. And China already backs Venezuela who backs Cuba, infact China back's just about every anti U.S. country out there (Iran, NK, Venezuela ect..). And even if they started directly backing Cuba it would not bother me in the least, we're not trying to take over Cuba, China on the other hand wants to make Taiwan a part of China.
This is ridiculous. U have no right to interfere in chinese affairs and take their lands away from them. It's like the current Kosovo situation ... u always intervene where u are not wanted.

Taiwan is China just as Kosovo is Serbia.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsar Simeon View Post
This is ridiculous. U have no right to interfere in chinese affairs and take their lands away from them. It's like the current Kosovo situation ... u always intervene where u are not wanted.

Taiwan is China just as Kosovo is Serbia.
Generally speaking, people dont interfere when reasonableness is used in solving problems.. Serbs proved they werent, and jury is still out on the Chinese... that said, nobody in Europe is getting excited about Tiawan... its a US thing by the looks of it... Europe is more excited by the closening relationship between Russia and China..... and not in a good way....
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2007, 08:43 AM
JBMcCain JBMcCain is offline
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Originally Posted by Texas View Post
What makes you think they do?
LOL. None that I know of. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though. That was supposed to be a joke really.

Texas you previously mentioned China's poor human rights record and the Tiananmen square incident. If they are willing to do that to people in their own Country who want Democracy, what will they do to a break away provience that actually practices it?

Also, it seems you were challengeing Onepoint's opinion rather then disagreeing with it.
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  #24  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:02 AM
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Texas Texas is offline
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Originally Posted by JBMcCain View Post
LOL. None that I know of. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though. That was supposed to be a joke really.

Texas you previously mentioned China's poor human rights record and the Tiananmen square incident. If they are willing to do that to people in their own Country who want Democracy, what will they do to a break away provience that actually practices it?

Also, it seems you were challengeing Onepoint's opinion rather then disagreeing with it.
The US backed a dictatorship that imposed martial law on Tiawan from 48-87 ,namely the R.O.C ! and politically (ironically) doesn't recognise Taiwan as an independent state but as a part of China.
The ROC was kicked out of the UN back in 1971 and is not recognised as a independent state. The US has no embassy in Taiwan!
and also China has declared it will not trade with countries that recognise Taiwan as an independent state.
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Last edited by Texas; 10-06-2007 at 10:15 AM..
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  #25  
Old 10-06-2007, 11:42 AM
onep0int onep0int is offline
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They wouldn't have any independence if the US hadn't backed Chiang

We supported them (overtrown Chinese government) in WW2 didn't we? What would make it any different after a Communist Revolution?

Because you made it your problem.

Indeed. Communism was our problem.

China buys Venezuelan oil , So?

And sells them weapons.

No it doesn't. China does not want a nuclear Iran anymore than you do. NK is a thorn in China's side

Yet they continue to sell Iran weapons, not to mention they don't put there words to action when it comes time to enforcing strict measures on Iran. As for NK they continue to be NK's largest trading partner.

Absolutely not. Gauntanamo is very convenient. Leave well alone.lol

Gauntanamo is very convenient it's a hell of a base with quick access to all of the carribbean and was part of the deal.


Taiwan is in China.

The official stance is that it is a seperate democratic state, something that China is not very happy with.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-2007, 11:48 AM
onep0int onep0int is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas View Post
The US backed a dictatorship that imposed martial law on Tiawan from 48-87 ,namely the R.O.C ! and politically (ironically) doesn't recognise Taiwan as an independent state but as a part of China.
The ROC was kicked out of the UN back in 1971 and is not recognised as a independent state. The US has no embassy in Taiwan!
and also China has declared it will not trade with countries that recognise Taiwan as an independent state.
Actually they (ROC) considered themselves the true China not a part of China. Which was the U.S. policy until Nixon changed it (the one China policy) with his visit to China in 1972. Taiwan hasn't become fully idependent, and really the only reason Bush has expressed displeasure with the referendum to enter the UN as Taiwan is because we need China's help with Iran and NK.

[url]http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2004/31649.htm[/url]

Official U.S. stance on Taiwan and China.

And we may not have an official embassy we have the American Institute in Taiwan which provides many of the same services.

[url]http://www.ait.org.tw/en/[/url]
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2007, 11:54 AM
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Texas Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onep0int View Post
We supported them (overtrown Chinese government) in WW2 didn't we? What would make it any different after a Communist Revolution?
You supported a unified Chinese army of Chiang and Mao against the Japanese.


Quote:
Indeed. Communism was our problem.
Because you chose it to be.

Quote:
And sells them weapons.
As you sell weapons to undesirable states also.

Quote:
Yet they continue to sell Iran weapons, not to mention they don't put there words to action when it comes time to enforcing strict measures on Iran. As for NK they continue to be NK's largest trading partner.
China prefers to talk and not to escalate the current situation in Iran. Talks have had an impact in NK . The South Korean leader was there this week and stood next to Kim at an event. First time ever!



Quote:
The official stance is that it is a seperate democratic state, something that China is not very happy with.
The official stance through the UN is that Taiwan is apart of China. The ROC is required to use the name Chinese Taipei in many circumstances, due to the One-China Policy.
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Last edited by Texas; 10-06-2007 at 11:58 AM..
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2007, 12:17 PM
onep0int onep0int is offline
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You supported a unified Chinese army of Chiang and Mao against the Japanese.

And when Mao took over with Communist intentions we would not support that.


Because you chose it to be.

You don't think Communism is a problem? I come from a Cuban background and I've seen what Communism has done to my family in Cuba and the success my grandfather had before Castro. As far I'm concerned Communism is a very real problem

As you sell weapons to undesirable states also.

I'm guessing you mean Israel don't you?

China prefers to talk and not to escalate the current situation in Iran.

Sure they do the more we talk the more weapons and oil they can buy.

Talks have had an impact in NK .

NK is a different story than Iran. Iran can sustain itself through the sale of oil. NK has nothing they use threats as leverage in talks to get something they want.

The South Korean leader was there this week and stood next to Kim at an event. First time ever!

Yup I saw that.



The official stance through the UN is that Taiwan is apart of China. The ROC is required to use the name Chinese Taipei in many circumstances, due to the One-China Policy.

It's probably better that I don't express my attitude towards the UN lol.
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2007, 08:30 PM
JBMcCain JBMcCain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas View Post
The US backed a dictatorship that imposed martial law on Tiawan from 48-87 ,namely the R.O.C ! and politically (ironically) doesn't recognise Taiwan as an independent state but as a part of China.
The ROC was kicked out of the UN back in 1971 and is not recognised as a independent state. The US has no embassy in Taiwan!
and also China has declared it will not trade with countries that recognise Taiwan as an independent state.
OK. I understand your point if you go back far enough. It was founded by Nationalist, and their goal was to retake the mainland.But..

What about the last 20 years? I figured if you were going to argue a point, it might have a more modern theme. You don't think they have come a long way with their reforms?

They offical U.S. policy states something to the sound of.

If Tawian was to provoke China by claiming Independence, the U.S. has an Obligation NOT to defend it.

In other words, maintain the status quo, Right?

Last edited by JBMcCain; 10-06-2007 at 08:35 PM..
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:42 AM
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Texas Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onep0int View Post
And when Mao took over with Communist intentions we would not support that.
He had communist intentions all along


Quote:
You don't think Communism is a problem? I come from a Cuban background and I've seen what Communism has done to my family in Cuba and the success my grandfather had before Castro. As far I'm concerned Communism is a very real problem
I think it depends on the country in question and how big the wealth gap is. I don't like communism either but it maybe a necessary evil in certain countries to correct an imbalance. Each country is evolving differently with diferent cultures history etc. Interesting how countrys such as China are now embracing capitalism but keeping the one party state


Quote:
I'm guessing you mean Israel don't you?
No I wasn't thinking of Israel. More like the Saudi Arabia which my country supply also and if thats not an oil deal of mega proportions I don't know what is! We give them Jet fighters and they give us oil.

Quote:
Sure they do the more we talk the more weapons and oil they can buy.
lol, probably!


Quote:
NK is a different story than Iran. Iran can sustain itself through the sale of oil. NK has nothing they use threats as leverage in talks to get something they want.
True

Quote:
It's probably better that I don't express my attitude towards the UN lol.
Talking shop?
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