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  #1  
Old 10-13-2005, 08:57 PM
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Default Prove it's not for Oil

The big conflict.

Is it for people, or is it for Oil.

The Gov't has said that it is for people, so immediately the challenge is placed on proving that it isn't. No one needs to prove that it is for people because the good gov't has said so.

Challenge.

Prove that it isn't for Oil.

I will not discredit sensible answers like so many people have done to credible arguements supporting the idea that the war is for Oil. We don't need to name, names on that.
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:26 PM
ZackAttack23693 ZackAttack23693 is offline
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If the war was for oil, why have the prices sky rocketed

If it wasnt for oil then what was it for? Everyone now hates us, lost 2,000 soldiers, our own citizens hate us/them (government), and more citizens have been dieing now than with Sadaam in control. I think originally our gov't underestimated the enemy and in the beginning one of the main reasons was for oil but now with so much other stuff going wrong its probably not as an important.
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2005, 07:25 AM
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As old oil fields dry up .New ones are needed. Chinas economy is increasing by 8% a year .In 2004, according to the Ministry of Commerce, China's oil imports were 110m tons, up 21% on the previous year.
Iraq has been occupied simply to secure access to Massive oil reserves .which have as yet remained untouched .

In years gone by, the Imperial powers of Europe simply occupied a country and ruled it .Enabling an elite aristocratic clique to exploit the countries mineral wealth .These days we use more sophisticated methods .Such as:- Invade country ,Install friendly (democratic)government ,then do deal with friendly government . This of course can back fire ,if the invading power doesn't plan for every eventuality .
As we can see in Iraq .By dismantling the countries security infrastructure . We inadvertantly created a void . Thus creating a perfect environment for an Insurgency to take place .
In other words we have *****ed up big style !
We are now in a situation where we either just pull out or we get serious and pile a lot more troops in .Enabling us to secure the damn place !
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Old 10-14-2005, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
You just helped to prove that it is for the people and not the oil. If we were there to instill a puppet government, we would have kept security forces in place. However, those security forces were the Sunni minority and very oppressive to the Shia. They were removed so that an Iraqi police and military force could be comprised of the various groups.
I never said puppet .I said friendly . As for proving your point ,You're dreaming !
The point is .No oil will be exploited until we have created stability .Which doesn't seem any time near .If America was serious about spreading democracy in Iraq ,Why was there initially NO PLAN?
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Old 10-14-2005, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
The proof that it isn't for oil is that we haven't taken a drop of oil. In fact, we don't even have enough refineries to process the oil we're already getting!
Thats a ridiculous answer .A BP refinery(the biggest in the US ) in Texas is out of action due to fire and a Hurricane has reduced refining even further . Consequently the US is leaning on the rest of the world to refine the short fall . US consumption has not dropped one bit as a result .Refining has nothing to do with securing reserves of oil . They are quite different !

Quote:
The reason why gas prices in the US have increased over the past months is because demand keeps increasing, but we can't refine oil fast enough. The problem isn't the amount of oil coming into the US.
I agree .The problem is China!

Quote:
But like you said, we don't need proof. The accusers must provide proof of guilt.
That wasn't the question!
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:54 PM
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The Oil in Iraq is not secure. When the pipes get up and running, a bomb mysteriously brings it to a halt again.

Plus:

THE DAILY STAR

...But more than the threat of Al-Qaeda terror, KAAOT's main problem is its dilapidated state, like that of many of Iraq's oil facilities due to a decade of UN sanctions against the ousted regime of Saddam Hussein.

KAAOT suffers from a structural problem: super tankers can not reach the terminal because of the shallow waters around the area.

And the terminal has four loading docks, but two of them are so rundown they became obsolete while the two others can only be used one at a time due to pumping problems.

The poor state of the terminal meant that in the last four months, only two tankers managed to load oil from the installation, according to Lieutenant Michael Morse, who commands the U.S. Navy forces on the site.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

When it does get up and running, if the Iraqi's are U.S. friendly it'll flow to the port of New Orleans...assuming that gets fixed too.
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Old 10-14-2005, 03:20 PM
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Here are a few other countries who's people could really use a hand.

Angola, Bangladesh, Benin, Bhutan, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Kiribati, Laos, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Malawi, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Niger, Rwanda, Samoa, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sudan, East Timor, Togo, Tuvalu, Uganda, Tanzania, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia.

I wonder how many of them are on the radar for "assistance".
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Old 10-15-2005, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
I know that refining oil and reserves of oil are different. My point is that what's the point of securing more oil sources if we can't even keep up with the refining of the oil we're getting already.
Ok fair enough , in answer to your question .
All major Industrialised countries plan for their future energy requirements .In other words, it is vital that they know their energy requirements can be met . If they can't be met by oil .Diverse energy projects such as solar ,wind ,water,nuclear ,oh and this Hydrogen 3 would have to be in place to absorb the short fall .At the moment we are told by OPEC that oil will run out in 20 years unless new oil fields are discovered . Energy procurement (gaurantees of oil supply) works in approx this time frame also .
By installing a democratic government in Baghdad ,automatically brings Iraq under America's sphere of influence which in turn gaurantees access to the massive oil reserves in Iraq ,when they are needed !


Quote:
I know. I already addressed the challenge given. That statement was just an agreement with the first part of his post. My initial contention was that we haven't taken any oil, thus the war's not for oil. If we wanted to, we could take oil out of there. The oil is secure enough
Ok understood ,
Your right ,we haven't taken any oil YET .Its not what we do today /tommorrow or next year , its a bigger picture .We're planning for the next 20 -30 years .If they weren't planning this far ahead ,they wouldn't be doing the job you elected them to do !
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Old 10-15-2005, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Common Sence
The Oil in Iraq is not secure. When the pipes get up and running, a bomb mysteriously brings it to a halt again.
.
NO PLAN to win the peace = Exploding oil pipes!
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2005, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
Haha, lets lay it on the table to how it is:


There is no proof that the war is for oil. Absence of this proof, does not prove that the war is not for oil. Anything as to what happens in the future is speculation and opinion on both sides of the argument.
You're starting to sound like Donald Rumsfeld! LOL

I'm simply saying Governments have energy requirement targets which have to be gauranteed .If oil ran out tomorrow and the powers that be hadn't made provision for it . They'd deserve to be lined up and shot!
The basic foundation for our way of life as you and I know it ,is based at the moment on oil.
Thats a fact ,so consequently the majority of decisions made in relation to the middle east and other areas of the world are heavily influenced by oil Procurement .

1+1=2
crude oil + Refining = Happy America !
No crude oil =No refining + Unhappy America
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Last edited by Texas; 10-15-2005 at 02:25 PM..
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