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  #11  
Old 10-28-2005, 07:23 PM
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iit will ALWAYS come down to man to man, or no man at all.
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2005, 01:59 AM
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Posted by andoman42-
True about the EMP but if the military would want robots on the battlefield they would also cough up the money for the EMP shielding. And I would guess that robots would be able to push that extra mile....they shouldnīt ever get tired......and why would they need the spirit? They would be 100% efficient killers with no feelings of remorse, no shell shock, no psychological problems whatsoever. And that is true that at the current technology level they cannot match the human brain, but at the speed technology advances I wouldnīt be too surprised if a machine would pass the Turing test in the next 10-20 years.

EMP shielding is very expensive and time-consuming. Humans are cheaper soldiers. Robots cannot push the extra mile because there is no such thing for a machine like that. It can't go beyond what it was designated to do. Spirit pushes men to do extraordinary things in the field of battle. Machines would be overly efficient killers, likely slaughtering surrendering troops or civilians, or do you plan on having a pilot for each robot? Getting really inefficient here. COMPUTERS WILL NEVER EXCEED THE ABILITIES AND SPEED OF THE HUMAN MIND. Don't mean to pick a fight, but I am just a firvent anti-technologist. And yet I use it more than anyone else in the family .
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  #13  
Old 10-29-2005, 03:32 PM
andoman_42 andoman_42 is offline
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No offence taken Clive. I on the other hand is an engineer down to my bone marrow.....so of course I wanīt to support technology all the way. Its my way of life

Ok, I agree that they donīt have spirit....or "Sisu" as we Finns call it. But I donīt agree that computers and machines NEVER will be developed to a stage of intelligence and tought. I think that they will be developed further than any human could possible imagine today. That is just a matter of time and resources in my opinion. But I repeat my words that I do not belive that robots are the future of warfare as then humans are screwed. I think it is up to all the guys doing this kind of development to make sure it wonīt be a showdown between man and his creation.....you might remember some movies that cover these possibilities....and what was the outcome....but I guess we just have to wait and see. Warfare has developed quite a way in 100 years.....I donīt think that any soldier in the beginning of the 20th century could even imagine the computer guided warfare we have on todays battlefield. How will it look like in 2105?
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2005, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andoman_42
No offence taken Clive. I on the other hand is an engineer down to my bone marrow.....so of course I wanīt to support technology all the way. Its my way of life

Ok, I agree that they donīt have spirit....or "Sisu" as we Finns call it.
My grandpa, his four brothers, and my brother are all machinists and carpenters (both mind you). So I think this is another engineer vs. machinist complex. .

Spirit is a poor English translation of Sissu, it's so much more, don't you think? A word that has no equal in any other tongue. A character that only a Finn can possess. Whenever I say that word Sissu in the southern part of the state, I get a raised eyebrow. I have a Scottish friend, and so after I described it to him, he said he understood (i think he thought it was similar to some qualities of Celts or something). I said, "no you don't." Then he really did understand it.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2005, 05:43 AM
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Humans are pathetically fragile. Let's face it, on a bad day we can be walking down the street, trip, fall and die.

No matter how much spirit the human has they are still stuck in that fragile, slow, weak little body.

A Robot could be designed to function at a basic level greater than that to which the human spirit can push the human body.
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2005, 05:44 AM
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Or you could slap the Human in a Machanized vehicle. Not to be a geek.
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2005, 03:28 PM
andoman_42 andoman_42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive
Spirit is a poor English translation of Sissu, it's so much more, don't you think? A word that has no equal in any other tongue. A character that only a Finn can possess. Whenever I say that word Sissu in the southern part of the state, I get a raised eyebrow. I have a Scottish friend, and so after I described it to him, he said he understood (i think he thought it was similar to some qualities of Celts or something). I said, "no you don't." Then he really did understand it.
Yep, you are correct that the word sisu does not really translate easily to english....Iīm trying to think of words that might better express what sisu stands for....anyway...that is what kept the russians at bay in the Winter War.....Finns and their sisu....like my granddad.....
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2005, 07:05 AM
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Tell me if I have the right idea. ....

sisu would be something that alloud you to rise up in great adversity and achieve the unachievable.

"GRIM DETERMINATION BROUGHT HIM THE VICTORY THAT NONE COULD HAVE HOPED FOR" Whould this person have a lot of sisu.

Phydippidies (spelling) that Greek fellow who ran 26 miles or something, delivered his message to the king and dies. Would you need a lot of sisu to RUN full out for 26 miles.

Sorry if I've butchered your word and made an *** out of myself. I just don't want to be talking about spirit if spirit isn't what we're aking about.

Thanks
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Last edited by Common Sence; 10-31-2005 at 07:17 AM..
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2005, 09:25 AM
andoman_42 andoman_42 is offline
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Actually you hit quite on the spot.....those are good descriptions of what sisu is. This might propably be one of the best known finnish words in the world
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2005, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andoman_42
Actually you hit quite on the spot.....those are good descriptions of what sisu is. This might propably be one of the best known finnish words in the world
Quite right.
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- John Stuart Mill
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